Curse

| Cleric | · Oct 08, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

I really don't know if this is going to turn into a rant or a build. Probably a mix of both but to get you an idea of my mindset I am honestly fed up with the majority of the pvp community. Mainly because most of you are stuck in your cookie cutter builds and reject any build that does not match one of them. I have been kicked from so many groups in AB or TA because people take one look at my build [see the elite] and kick me.

So I am just putting this build out there and probably the majority who read this and reply I am expecting to call me a noob. Hopefully you will look more at the build then just glancing at the elite. I also am not expecting anyone to compliment but I honestly don't care. The groups I am in I end up;killing the most people, living the longest, and usually caping shrines by myself.

I am sure there are more people out there who share my feelings but it is frustrating to instantly be called a noob for a build because of one glance at the elite especially from people who are using a build they didn't even come up with and probably barely know how to use effectively.

Hopefully, since most of the people here have created their own build at one time or another and are open and confident enough to post it no matter what the remarks will be you will understand how I feel about this build. I am not saying it is going to change the game. I just want people to take a look at the whole build and not just the elite.

Build Template: [Gaze2;OAJTQYDiV6NISY4oRMTwNoR44AA]
Profession: [Necro/Ranger]
Name: Gaze2
Type: [PvE/AB/TA/RA] Tested in all
Category: [Spiker]

Attributes:
Blood Magic: 16 (12+3+1)
Soul Reaping: 9 (8+1)
Wilderness Survival: 10

Skills:
Awaken Blood
Signet of Agony
Melandru's Resilience
Angorodon's Gaze
Vampiric Gaze
Unholy Feast
Rend Enchantments
Rez Sig

Alternate Skills:
Storm Chaser (useful in AB where res is not needed)
Blood of the Aggressor (useful for higher damage output in replace of Rend Enchantments)

Summary:

Simple enough, Keep Awaken Blood and Melandru's up all the time. Make sure you are constantly bleeding or suffering from some condition. This will give you 18 in Blood, a +1 health regen, and a +5 energy regen.

Spam Angorodon's Gaze with Vamp Gaze. if you run up to use Sigent of Agony as damage to a group of foes, follow it up with Unholy Feast. Use Rend Enchantments on Monks, Eles, Dervs, and any other heavy enchantment based class

Notes & Concerns: Try not to take on more then 3 people. You'll be able to successfully kill people in a 2 on 1 and if you can't you will at least be able to outlive any damage they can do to you.

Credit: Me and thxs to those people who have an open mind about new builds that are not cookie cutters.

glountz · Oct 08, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Don't bring this outside AB.
The fact is that a Me/N with Arcane echo will completely surpass the life stealing output that your build have, and by far.
As you seem to be devoted to go melee (With unholy feast etc...), which is a bad idea but whatever, you should use Chillblains instead of Rend enchants to put on poison and pump to +2 energy regen in addition of bleeding.
I don't mind "creative builds" but this one is really subpar.
Anyway have fun, but don't forget you're not playing alone in PvP and that people wait for builds that will allow your team to win.

Moloch Vein · Oct 08, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

I toyed with this idea (Melandru's + Angorodon) about one month or more ago, but realized that the Me/N combo was simply superior for any realistic use in PvP. Your build isn't terrible, basically due to the fact that Angorodon's is an imbalanced skill which will likely be nerfed within a week. Unholy Feast and Vampiric Gaze can still make you run out of energy fairly fast, and getting into melee range really isn't wise. Using Signet of Agony as an AoE isn't too great either - it is a condition applier, nothing more. I prefer using Blood Drinker because even if the bleeding is shorter, it actually does focused damage and it has a faster recharge in case the condition gets stripped. Also if you're running with a decent maximum health (which, really, you should do) the signet's going to hit you for about 60hp.

I had some fun in AB running a version of this including Melandru's, Angorodon's and an assortment of well spells. Nothing screws up the enemy team quite like popping up a Well of the Profane during a shrine fight.

moko · Oct 08, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

people try to win..in AB it's not so bad, in TA i'd completely understand it.

i dont actually have a problem with Mels Resilience, it's a nice elite, it can fit on quite many casters if you feel like messing around..

i'm not a fan of blood however, it doesn't really do a lot of damage, lacks quite some utility and does..nothing.

also the build itself is northing that's worth running in a team..it doesn't add anything but the rend enchants.

| Cleric | · Oct 08, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

I actually like the Me/N build but I find i get interrupted a lot (knocked down) and don't have as much defense besides stealing health especially against condition inflicting opponents. I know you want a condition for that build but at some point the conditions outweigh the healing. I find the Me/N build sacrifices defensive ability by relying on pure offense to deal damage and heal. It also doesn't help out a team besides doing damage.

I actually think I created some what of a misunderstanding about Unholy Feast and Signet of Agony. I do not actively run into melee fights mainly because necros are soft targets with their low armor. I also believe meleemancers are not as effective as a normal melee class. Melee spots also tend to get nuked by eles. I only use Signet of Agony and Unholy Feast when I cannot run away from the melee, they rush me, or I am the target of a shadow step skill.

I am not going to disagree with Blood Drinker. I frequently switch it out with Signet of Agony and there are pros and cons to both.

As for team stuff I alter the build a bit. Mainly I remove attribute points from Soul Reaping (not all of them) since it is not as effective in a small 4 on 4 matches and Mel Resilence provides me with enough energy when hexed or suffering from conditions. I place the points from Soul Reaping into Curses and will normally switch out Unholy Feast and Rend Enchantments with two curses skills that compliment my team. I know you cannot do this with the Me/N build because it requires Auspicous Incantation to cover the cost of Arcane Echo and Blood Drinker.

I am not saying that this build is better then the Me/N but I believe it is more versatile and has a better defensive ability then the Me/N. Offensive, yes the Me/N takes the cake on damage output.

Tyla · Oct 08, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

necros have agot all the e-management they need imo

if you have nf its best to take reapers mark

Coloneh · Oct 08, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

wtb damage. people dont run blood because the DPS is low. necros dont run mel's resistance because they have a few really good elites.

Moloch Vein · Oct 08, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Correction, people don't run blood because the DPS is low, when they are necromancers...

The standard Me/N build is somewhere around:

Mantra of Recall - Blood Drinker - Arcane Echo - Angorodon's Gaze - Mark of Subversion - Strip Enchantment - Awaken the Blood - Resurrection Signet

Actually this has better utility than the build posted in the OP - don't forget that the spells cast at double speed and recharge at double speed.

I have not found using Auspicious Incantation all that critical to the success of this build.

Claiming this is "low DPS" is silly. The casting time for this spell at 14FC is .5 seconds. The recharge is 2.5 seconds under MoR. Using Arcane Echo and Awaken the Blood you get two hits of 71HP in 3 seconds. That's 142HP in 3 seconds or ~47DPS, which can be upheld for twenty seconds for no energy cost for about 950HP over 20 seconds. (Actually, it does cost 10e to uphold the bleeding for 20 seconds with Blood Drinker, so let's add another 144 to the damage. And let's add the cost of Arcane Echo as well, that's 15. So, that's actually a total of 25e for 1040HP, or about 41HP healed and stolen/e.) And this isn't capping degeneration. This is stackable, focused, ranged, armor-ignoring, protection-ignoring damage.

It's an absurd build which shows yet again how the designers of the game have managed to turn the Blood line into a bad joke at the expense of the actual necromancer primaries, who will most likely see yet another skill nerfed through the floor.

moko · Oct 09, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by | Cleric |

I actually like the Me/N build but I find i get interrupted a lot (knocked down)

your nec build has no KD prevention.

there's no difference there?

BLOODGOAT · Oct 09, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Don't sweat it. People oft try to laugh me out of their FoW chest runs when I ping my build, but it's always me who is the last person alive. Interesting development, no?

(Oh yeah, my build includes Signet of Stamina, "To the Limit!", and Defy Pain. By their interpretation, "To the Limit!" will only charge Defy Pain 5/6 meaning I'd have to attack an enemy to get the last strike, thus nullifying Signet of Stamina... but these neebs clearly can't see my equipment setup and don't realize that "To the Limit!" completely charges Defy Pain. Bah.)

Moloch Vein · Oct 09, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

The obvious reason that he's getting interrupted when running the Me/N in RA is that people know a threat when they see one.

A Leprechaun · Oct 09, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I'm sure the builds works well, but in AB and to a lesser extent RA it has to contend with, and will most likely be outcalassed, by the aboved stated Me/N build or the much hated toucher, which even though the people who use it are apparenly "noobs" can be a very effective build.

~A Leprechaun~

| Cleric | · Oct 09, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I already know that the Me/N build will output my N/R build in damage but my build does out preform the Me/N in other areas. Basically the seconds is really a time-line and takes into account casting times of spells and then the recharge of them WITHOUT weaponmods configured in.

Me/N build over 20secs (UPDATED AS OF 10/12/2007)

1sec__Mantra of Recovery and Awaken Blood_____15e_____0dmg
2sec__Blood Drinker___________________________5e_____62dmg
3sec__Arcane Echo___________________________15e_____0dmg
4sec__A. Gaze x2_____________________________6e_____142dmg
5sec__nothing
6sec__nothing
7sec__A. Gaze x2_____________________________6e_____142dmg
8sec__Blood Drinker___________________________5e_____62dmg
9sec__nothing
10sec_nothing
11sec_A. Gaze x2_____________________________6e_____142dmg
12sec_nothing
13sec_Blood Drinker___________________________5e_____62dmg
14sec_A. Gaze x2_____________________________6e_____142dmg
15sec_nothing
16sec_nothing
17sec_A. Gaze x2_____________________________6e_____142dmg
18sec_Blood Drinker___________________________5e_____62dmg
19sec_Mantra of Recove_______________________5e_____0dmg
20sec_A. Gaze x2_____________________________6e_____142dmg

Total Time Elapsed = 20secs
Total Energy Lost = -91e
Total Energy Gained = 24e
Net Energy = -67e
Total Damage = 1100dmg
DPS = 55 damage or health gained per second

================================================== =========

N/R build over 20secs
1sec__Awaken Blood____10e_____0dmg
2sec__Blood Drinker_____5e______74dmg
3sec__Mel Resilience____5e______0dmg
4sec__A. Gaze at_______3e______87dmg
5sec__V. Gaze at_______10e_____68dmg
6sec__nothing
7sec__nothing
8sec__nothing
9sec__nothing
10sec_A. Gaze_________3e______87dmg
11sec_v. Gaze_________10e_____68dmg
12sec_Blood Drinker_____5e______74dmg
13sec_nothing
14sec_nothing
15sec_nothing
16sec_nothing
17sec_A. Gaze_________3e______87dmg
18sec_Mel Resilience____5e______0dmg
19sec_v. Gaze_________10e_____68dmg
20sec_nothing

Total Time Elapsed = 20secs
Total Energy Lost = -69e
Total Energy Gained = 39e (30e +9e)
Net Energy = -30e
Total Damage = 613dmg
DPS = 30.65 damage or health gained per second

================================================== =========

Other Stuff
Me/N vs N/R

Damage
55dps to 30.65dps (Me/N dps will drop at 23sec but since the opponent is assumed to be dead there really is no drop in dps)

Energy
-67e to -30e (the N/R could have a positive energy gain assuming other hexes and conditions are applied possible at the sacrifice of some health but it gives you the energy to cast A. Gaze and V. Gaze. Post-update for Me/N Auspicious Incantation must be used. I noticed it is hard to start the build back up if you mess up somewhere along the way like not having bleeding on.)

Degeneration
-120 health to +40 health (Me/N offsets this with stealing health)

Interrupts
Hard to interrupt versus easier to interrupt (although for the Me/N spamming skills raises the chances even though the casting time is lower)

Knockdowns
tied (Although the most common form of knockdowns tend to be from sin skills which normally come with conditions so the Me/N has no health gain here while the N/Me has at least some of it offset. <===That was my point Mokone)

Running
Can't versus Can (assuming AB play only)

Threat Level
High versus Low (mainly because N/R is not a commonly seen pair of classes)

Spiking Ability
Win to lose (uncontested)

Enchantment removal
Hard to say. I would imagine Me/N would be worse if Arcane echo gets stripped. If AtB gets stripped well both lose their extra damage abiltiy.

Rezing
Win to lose (uncontested)

Energy Denail
Lose to Win (Me/N has a higher start up cost for spells and the N/R has Soul Reaping and Mel Resilience)

There are other stuff I am sure you can add infavor of one or the other.

| Cleric | · Oct 12, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Just a note (sorry for the double post), I have not had a problem with my build since the update to Angorodon's Gaze. Although I have had some problems with energy while running the Me/N build.

I was curious what your thoughts are on the Me/N build post 10/13/2007 update.

samcobra · Oct 13, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

So you're a noob. Why would someone take a life-steal spammer that can ridiculously easily get shut down (dshot, diversion anyone?) when they could take something that can really do shit. If they want a caster, you could go with something gay like a BSurge warder or if you're being like an idiot with unholy and frontlining, might as well take a warrior.

In short, yes you are probably a noob and I agree completely with the people that reject you from their groups.

| Cleric | · Oct 14, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

So you're a noob. Why would someone take a life-steal spammer that can ridiculously easily get shut down (dshot, diversion anyone?) when they could take something that can really do shit. If they want a caster, you could go with something gay like a BSurge warder or if you're being like an idiot with unholy and frontlining, might as well take a warrior.

In short, yes you are probably a noob and I agree completely with the people that reject you from their groups.

Any build in the game can be shut down. The idea that people with shutdown builds only effect necros in blood magic is just dumb. If you are running a shutdown build you should be able to shutdown any class. Spamming or not spamming.

jaeharys targaryen · Oct 14, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

If you are running a shutdown build you should be able to shutdown any class.

wait...
so [skill]migraine[/skill] shuts down [skill]eviscerate[/skill]???
it all makes sense now!

^^have been migrained while playing shock axe, btw

martialis · Oct 14, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

If you are running a shutdown build you should be able to shutdown any class.

wait...
so [skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill] shuts down [skill]eviscerate[/skill]???
it all makes sense now!

^^have used dolyak signet while spamming diversion like a retard, btw

| Cleric | · Oct 14, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaeharys targaryen

wait...
so [skill]migraine[/skill] shuts down [skill]eviscerate[/skill]???
it all makes sense now!

^^have been migrained while playing shock axe, btw

While that is funny I must note two things; one I have seen a warrior use backfire so I guess that would work on him.

Two I would probably be a Domination Mesmer instead of an Illusion Mesmer since I feel Dom Mesmers have more shutdown skills that effect more classes instead of just pressure skills. It's like you have [skill]Visions of Regret[/skill] about how your post [skill]Backfire[/skill] on you and your [skill]Diversion[/skill] with using skills while while funny will not give you [skill]Empathy[/skill] for your [skill]Ignorance[/skill].

jaeharys targaryen · Oct 15, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by martialis

wait...
so [skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill] shuts down [skill]eviscerate[/skill]???
it all makes sense now!

^^have used dolyak signet while spamming diversion like a retard, btw

mine was actually funny. your made no sense.